Wednesday, March 27, 2013

Defeatable

The fan-base tries the "it's classified" meme.

Yet this is pretty hard to believe, given an obsolete JORD and all:

One senior official from the region, who has access to the most sensitive classified information about the system, told me recently that the F-35 is "simply undefeatable."

A rough parametric look at the F-22 and Typhoon which represent emerging Pacific Rim threats like the PAK/FA and SU-3x shows the problem:

(click image to make larger)

7 comments:

Anonymous said...

The Tiger II tank was 'simply undefeatable' too?

What an incompetent and mis-informative comment for a 'senior official from the region' to say!

How exactly does this senior official know what potential adversarial threats will be fielded, in what numbers compared to the block III F-35 and know how they will be armed and defended themselves tactically, in 2018-2020?

Truly, if they could sell a block V F-35A -- IOC by 2018 and performing as was originally specified -- for the cost of an F-16... absolutely, you would not want to be a 'bad actor' facing such a miracle force structure.

Now... back to reality.

Anonymous said...

Perhaps he meant to say: "simply undefendable"?

Cocidius said...

Meanwhile the "other" emerging threat is now flying with missiles and making rapid progress in its flight test program.

With the glacial pace of F-35 development, the J-20 will reach IOC before a block 3 JSF is ready for flight testing.

http://china-defense.blogspot.com/2013/03/photos-of-day-j-20-mounting-pair-of-pl.html

Blacktail said...

It's a bit strange to me to compare the F-35A to the F-22A and the Typhoon, since the former is a Tactical Fighter and the latter two are Air Superiority Fighters, but it's worth looking at the raw numbers.

The left figure is the F-35A, the middle is the F-22A, and on the right is the Typhoon.

Unit Cost;
~$400 Million --- $524 million+ --- $124 Million

Cost/Flight Hour;
$51143 --- $63929 --- $139188

Size;
51.4x35x14.2ft --- 62x44x16ft --- 54x39.5x15ft

Wing Area;
460ft2 --- 840ft2 --- 551ft2

Empty Weight;
29300lbs --- 43400lbs --- ~30000lbs

Internal Fuel;
18500lbs --- 18000lbs --- ~15000lbs

Payload;
13000lbs --- 23000lbs --- 14300lbs

Max. Loadout;
13800lbs --- 16500lbs --- 17000lbs

Maximum T/O Weight;
50000lbs --- 80000lbs --- 46000lbs

Weight w/Max. Stores;
61600lbs --- 77900lbs --- 47800lbs

(Continued below)

Blacktail said...

Continued from above, here's more of how the F-35A, F-22A, and Typhoon compare (F-35A on the left, F-22A in the center, Typhoon on the right).

Wing Loading, Empty;
63.69lb/ft2 --- 51.66lb/ft2 --- 39.92lb/ft2

Wing Loading, Full Internal Fuel;
103.91lb/ft2 --- 73lb/ft2 --- 55.89lb/ft2

Wing Loading, MT/O;
108.69lb/ft2 --- 95.23lb/ft2 --- 83.48lb/ft2

T/W Ratio, Empty;
1.19--- 1.61 --- 1.8

T/W Ratio, Full Internal Fuel;
0.95 --- 1.14 --- 1.29

T/W Ratio, MT/O;
0.7 --- 0.87 --- 0.86

Range;
850 miles --- 557 miles --- 860 miles

Ferry Range;
1125 miles* --- 930 miles --- 2350 miles
(*: Assumes two 3000lb droptanks are carried, but this capability has been deleted from the F-35)

Ceiling;
60000ft --- 50000ft --- 50000ft

Cruise Speed;
Mach 1.1 --- Mach 1.4 --- Mach 1.1

Top Speed;
Mach 1.6 --- Mach 1.8 --- Mach 2

Fuel fraction;
38% --- 29% --- 31%

Climb Rate;
50000ft/min --- 50000ft/min --- 60000ft/min

Initial Turn Rate (degrees/sec); 30 --- 30 --- 35

Continuous Turn Rate (degrees/sec);
20 --- 20 --- 20

Max. G-Load;
+9/-3 --- +9/-3 --- +9/-3

(Continued below)

Blacktail said...

Again, continued from above (F-35A stats on the left, F-22A in the center, Typhoon on the right).

Sensors;

F-22: AN/APG-77 Phased Array Radar, RWR
Typhoon: PS-05/A Mk.5 AESA Radar, IRST, RWR

Scan Range;

F-22: 150 miles @ 40x70 degrees
Typhoon): 100 miles @ 45 degrees (15 miles @ 180 degrees for IRST)

Dry Thrust;
28000lbs --- 50000lbs --- 27000lbs

AB Thrust;
35000lbs --- 70000lbs --- 40000lbs/AB

Thrust-Vectoring;
F-35A: No
F-22A: Yes (2D, +/- 20 degrees, synchronous pivoting)
Typhoon: No

Average Mission Fuel Consumption;
21.76lbs/mile --- 32.31lbs/mile --- 0.23lbs/mile

Weapon Stations...
F-35A: 1x GAU-22 Equalizer 25mm cannon w/180rds, 1x Internal Bay w/4000lb Capacity, 2x Auxillary Bay w/450lb Capacity, 2x Underwing Hardpoint w/3000lb Capacity, 2x Underwing Hardpoint w/1000lb Capacity, 2x Underwing Hardpoint w/450lb Capacity
F-22A: 1x M61A2 Vulcan 20mm cannon w/480rds, 1x Internal Bay w/ 4000lb capacity, 2x Auxillary Bay w/ 400lb capacity, 4x Underwing Hardpoints w/ 4000lb capacity
Typhoon: 1x Mauser BK-27 27mm cannon w/150 rounds, 1x Centerline Hardpoint w/3000lb Capacity, 4x Semi-Recessed Bay w/1000lb Capacity, 2x Underwing Hardpoint w/2000lb Capacity, 4x Underwing Hardpoint w/1000lb Capacity, 2x Underwing Hardpoint w/500lb Capacity, 2x Wingtip Missile Rail w/500lb Capacity

(Continued below)

Blacktail said...

Here's one more set of stats on the F-35A (left), F-22A (center), and Typhoon (right).

ECMs;
Chaff & Flares (30/30rds), ASPJ --- Chaff & Flares (30/30rds), ASPJ --- Chaff/Flares (30/30), ASPJ

RCS;
~7ft3 --- ~3ft3 --- ~10ft3

Drag Chute;
No --- Yes --- Yes


As you can see from all of the above data, the F-35A (though it has a number of distinct advantages) is well out of the league of the F-22A and Typhoon.

It's even MORE sobering to compare the F-35A's data to that of it's equivalents, such as the F-16C, JAS-39C, Rafale, J-10A, and Mig-29A.